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Subject:Clouds occur
Time:06:52 pm
Hi everyone! (waves as Latinately as she knows how)

I have a query about the motto on the coat of arms of the Earls of St Germans (that's in Cornwall). About half the Google entries cite it as 'Occurunt nubes'; the other half say 'Occurrent nubes'.

I can remember just about enough Latin to know that that means "Clouds occur [figuratively, "Shit happens"] but not enough to know whether one of those spellings is just wrong, or if one is the present and one the future tense. Can anyone tell me?
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Time:09:34 pm
A friend of mine decided to get a tattoo this weekend. Moreso, he decided to get it in Latin.. without asking anyone for some help with proper translations or anything!

So, in the hope of making sure he hasn't made a terrible, terrible mistake, could someone let me know if his decision to get 'neutiquam erro' tattooed in fancy letters on his arm was at least grammatically correct, if not in generally poor taste?

Thanks in advance!
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Time:05:59 pm
Hello there!
What is the right way to say "Never give up until the end" or simply "Never give up" in latin?
Is "Numquam cede, usque ad finem" correct? I need to make sure.
Thank you.
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Subject:Scansion Help.
Time:09:12 pm


So this semester, while my fifth semester of Latin, is my first time dealing with Poetry. We are focusing on Translating Book II of the Aeneid. 

Every night, when I am dong homework, I end up staring blankly at the pages, trying to figure out how to scan it. 

I normally just wait til I can ask in class for help with certain lines, but I have a test next class so that is not an option. So ANY help with scansion would be amazing!

Here are the lines that are giving me trouble.  These are all Book II

D= Dactyl; S=Spondee; ...=Elision

Line 182: improvisi aderunt. Ita digerit omnia Calchas. 

My Attempt: Impro | vi si...ad | erunt | Ita | Digerit | omnia | Calchas. So it would be: S S S S D D S

But as you can see, that's seven.... but I can't figure out where I am wrong.     

Line 187 and Line 193, I think I might get it, but I need to know. Is Moenia, 4 syllables: Mo E Ni A, or 3: Moe Ni A. Cause I am taking it as four, but I think it's only three and that's messing up my meter. (if that is not the case then something else is messing it up, and I'll post the lines. But I think it's that.)

And finally

Line 197: Quos neque Tydides Ned Larisaeus Achilles.

My attempt: Quos neque | Ty | dides | nec La | ri sa| eus A| chilles. So it would be: D Random Syllable S S S D S
Though, I think this line might be Spondaic? Cause the A being long by position, however, it's a Greek name, so I think that rule may not apply...


This stuff kills me

Help is much appreciated!!!
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Time:03:46 pm
Hello folks,

I started this journal for the purpose of practicing Latin composition and conversation.  Do any of you have LJ accounts in which all your entries are composed in Latin? We should be pals.
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Subject:small question
Time:07:57 pm
What would be a good way of saying "Time Judged All" in Latin? It's for a story I'm in the middle of and I'd rather not butcher it with a shoddy online translator.

Thanks in advance. :)
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Subject:idiom for "make money"
Time:11:42 pm
Hey there,
I was wondering if there was a Latin idiom for "make money." I want an active way of saying it, instead of something like "get paid," if that makes sense. It doesn't translate very well literally so any help would be much appreciated!

Would it simply be "facere pecuniam" = to make money?
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Subject:In shambles we ride
Time:06:55 pm
Greetings, fellow Latinists! A friend has asked me to help translate a cycling club motto into Latin, so that they can put it on their jerseys. The motto is 'in shambles we ride', so I've had a browse though various options for suitable vocabulary, and came up with the following options:

Shambles - congeries, congeria, confusio, conturbatio, consternatio

Ride - eo, veho, curro

On that basis, the best translation I could come up with was something like 'confusione curramus', on the basis that it has alliteration, and that the word 'confusio' (though not 'curro') is recognisable to people who don't know Latin.

But I thought I'd run it past the group before anyone starts ordering jerseys with the motto on them! Does anyone have any better thoughts, or have I made any elementary grammatical errors thanks to general rustiness?


ETA: - actually, currere is second conjugation, isn't it - so do I want confusione curremus? Told you I was rusty!
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Time:02:22 pm
It's been an awfully long time since I've studied Latin, so my grasp of it is pretty rusty. A friend of mine asked me what "Where am I?" and "Who are you?" is in Latin (for some Scriptwriting thing she's doing.) and I'm actually coming up blank. I'd be eternally grateful if someone could help me out. Thank you!
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Time:11:24 pm
It's been a little while since I've taken Latin, so this may be a dumb question, but! Does the defective verb memini, meminisse have a participle form? Or would you be better off finding another verb if you wanted to translate something as remembering?
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Subject:proper nouns
Time:08:41 pm
How in blazes do you tell which declension a proper noun is in? Does Etrusca go first declension?
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Subject:the internet has failed me...anyone speak latin?
Time:09:27 am
Hi there :) I'm working on a new piece of artwork and I want to add a latin motto to it. "Science made the unknown known" and "proof through logic" Internet translators arn't being very helpfull (every single one has given me a different translation), so I was wondering on the off chance if there was anyone reading this who could be kind enough to translate it for me please?
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Subject:to be proud
Time:03:36 pm
Current Mood:curiouscurious
I was thinking today that I wanted to say in Latin "I'm proud of you" but the only words I could think of or find in the dictionary were forms of superbus, which means more like proud as in haughty. There was a note that it was poetic and/or post-Augustan usage to use superbus to mean having pride in some accomplishment.

Is this just not a concept the Romans wrote about--to be proud of someone for their accomplishments--or am I missing something?

Multas gratias!
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Subject:My Invective Against Similarity in Translation
Time:10:01 pm
Current Mood:pleasedpleased
Quoth me from the LatinStudy Email Group:
I dislike sticking close to "answer keys" - I don't like the feeling I'm being brainwashed into acting like a zombie identical to everyone else, unless there is a very clearly delineated reason why one must use x.

Take into consideration the subjunctive mood - were, would, etc - there is generally a specific reason why I would be using "would" to express myself; e.g. in the sentence ""There is ... a ... reason why I would be using "would"..."" - see, I am not REALLY using "would" right now, except I am here.
Recursive reasoning often works - similar to why one writes a line on top of an infinite repetition of numbers or shows a number of repetitions and writes at the end an ellipsis to indicate it never ends.
1 divided by 3 is .33333...

Latin certainly helps inform my vocabulary choices, as does Russian, Chinese, German, Greek, and the other miscellaneous languages I have studied in the past decade.
Latin helps me communicate the most, as it should help us all! Latin was my first/best "foreign" language. (Most likely Spanish was historically my first, but I don't use it at all.)

Why don't we all have more unique answers? I think that synonyms are also acceptable, depending on the situation...

Translation is an art form. How may we best express a thought?
That reason is why the collators make these collations - showing the entire group how certain individuals translate each respective example.
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Subject:Aquinas' commentary on Book VII of Aristotle's Metaphysics
Time:12:43 pm

Thomas Aquinas's commentary on Book VII of Aristotle's Metaphysics now out in the Logic Museum.  As always, in parallel Latin English so you can see it exactly as Thomas was writing it. And as with all the commentaries in the Logic Museum, it is closely linked to Aristotle's text, via Bekker numbers, chapters and incipits. 

The Aristotle is in William of Moerbeck's Latin translation from the Greek, in parallel with Ross's English translation from the Greek. The text also includes links to Averroes' commentary on the Metaphysics, in the Latin translated from the Arabic (from an edition published in Venice in 1562).  Thus you can compare a version that was translated from Greek into Syriac, from Syriac to Arabic, from Arabic into Latin, with the one by William which was translated directly from the Greek (and which was close to a version we think that Thomas used).

It is also links to a 14th century manuscript of William's translation.  From which my avatar is taken - it reads 'Ens dicitur multipliciter' - loosely  'the word 'being' has many senses'.

Book VII is at the heart of the Metaphysics. It is very difficult to understand. Thomas's commentary is usually very clear, and helps a bit. (Not much, to be honest).

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Subject:The Golden Bough
Time:06:20 pm
[...] Nowhere so far in surviving classical literary sources or in surviving art have we met a golden branch.

But there is one. Agnes Kirsopp Michels found it as long ago as 1945, hidden amongst flowers. In about 100 BC in his anthology which he called 'The Garland', Meleager of Gadara gave his table of contents in the form of an introductory poem in which he described the separate contributions as different flowers woven into a garland by their different poets, for example, many madonna lilies from Anyte, many narcissi from Moero, from Sappho the flowers were few but roses, baià mèn allà rhóda (5-6). In 47-8 Meleager refers to the epigrams of a poet called Plato (who also wrote some philosophy):

naì mèn kaì chrýseion aeì theíoio Plátonos
klôna, tòn ex aretês pántothi lampómenon

And also the ever golden branch of divine Plato
Shining all around with virtue.

After long and unavailing search for an aureus ramus in classical literature, we have found it at last, a chrýseios klón, and it is carried by Plato.

It is impossible to prove that Virgil knew Meleager's Garland, but he has at least two other possible exploitations of it. At Aeneid 1.630, at the end of the first words Dido addresses to Aeneas, she tells him that she has known hardship and is learning to help those who suffer. 'Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco.' A.S.F. Gow and D.L. Page (1965) note that these noble words are very close to a phrase in Meleager 4537 'Having suffered, I know how to pity', oîda pathòn eleeîn, where F. Dübner said that these three words of Meleager steal the palm from Virgil. 'Tria uerba Meleagri palmam abripiunt Virgiliano "non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco".' A second such resemblance was pointed out by Nicholas Horsfall in 1979 and I thank him for reminding me of it. He refers to the resemblance between the pet stag which had been torn from its mother's udders and was looked after by the maiden Silvia in Aeneid 7.483-9, and the swift-footed pet hare torn from its mother's breast  and fed and cherished by sweet-skinned Phanium, he glykeróchros Phánion, in Meleager 4320-4 (Gow-Page). But do we need to prove that Virgil knew Meleager? Virgil was steeped in Greek poetry of all periods, and it is just not credible that he and his literary friends should not have known and discussed the gems of Greek lyric poetry collected by Meleager in his Garland at the beginning of Virgil's own century.

Why should Virgil allude to Plato at this point of the Aeneid? He wishes to include in his epic a prophecy of the future heroes of Rome. [...]

So then, the Platonic myth in the sixth book of the Aeneid is signalled by a subtle Platonic allusion at its beginning, and a subtle Platonic disclaimer in the allusion to the Homeric gates of dreams at the end. The highest achievements of the Greek literary and philosophical tradition, with a little help from a poet scholar from Gadara, have been pressed into service to expound the ideals of the Augustan empire. Within this brilliant vision there are shadows, reservations, doubts (analysed by Feeney, 1986), and at the end of it, we now argue, the note of scepticism subtly struck imparts something of humility and of melancholy as the poet admits man's uncertainty about the ordinances of god.

All this is far from Balder and Loki and Hödur, far from trichoschistic distinctions between false dreams and unreal shades, but eminently Virgilian.

D.A. West: The Golden Bough and the Gate (1987), in: S.J. Harrison (ed.): Oxford Readings In Vergil's Aeneid (1990).

...Sorry, Frazer.
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Subject:Help translating into Latin
Time:10:05 pm
Can anyone help me translate the following phrase into latin?

"Cool fire of the heart."

So far what I have come up with is "frigesco ignis de cor." Am I way out in left field?

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Subject:prayer translation
Time:11:44 am
Current Mood:rushedrushed

I've been asked to read a prayer in Latin at a church event, but I was not informed until today (event tomorrow) that I needed to translate it as well. I'm afraid I've made a hash of it on such short notice, so I want to run some questions by all you lovely people.

So far I've got this:

Lord, you prayed that Your disciples might be united with each other, in a unity grounded in Your oneness with the Father and the Holy Spirit. May Your prayer for unity grow in the depths of the hearts and minds of all Christians.

Domine, oravisti ut discipuli Tui alius alium __________, in unitatis constanti unitatem inter Tu Paterque Spiritus Sanctusque. Prex unitati imis animis omnium Christianorum crescat.
1) Would supplico maybe be better than oro in the first bit?
2) For the disciples united with one another... I've never been quite sure how to say each other / one another, but I found "alius alium" and I like that. But for "unite" should I use conducti (pp of conduco) or consocii, and does the "alius alium" phrase work with either of those things?
3) How on earth do I say "grounded in"? The best I could come up with was looking up "based on" and I really liked using the participle of "consto" but my dictionary said it was intransitive, so what case do I put "Your oneness with..." in? Or do I need to do something different?
4) Is "prex" ok or would "votum" be more accurate?

If you see any other issues let me know... Thank you so much!

x-posted to linguaphiles 
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Subject:Hymnus in honorem passionis Eulaliae
Time:12:27 pm

I read this hymn by Prudentius two years ago in a class but now find myself unable to translate the first sentence (five lines) by myself. Here is the text:

Germine nobilis Eulalia

mortis et indole nobilior

Emeritam sacra uirgo suam,

cuius ab ubere progenita est,

ossibus ornat, amore colit. (http://meta.montclair.edu/latintexts/prudentius/crowns3.html)

I do not understand what "emeritam suam" is. I am assuming it is also the antecedent of "cuius." So here's my translation with "emeritam" left untranslated:

The holy virgin Eulalia, noble by birth,

yet nobler still by the character of her death,

who with her bones decorates her emerita,

from whose breast she was born,

and with her love adorns.


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Subject:to act like X or to behave like X
Time:02:30 pm
Current Mood:determined
Salvete omnes,

I'm trying to find a verb for act or behave. I've come up with conversor, -ari, -atus, but it's only in one of my dictionaries, and one that is sometimes less helpful. Does anyone have any other ideas?

Multas gratias!
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Subject:very simple question
Time:03:55 pm
i always have issues with subordinate clauses... i over-analyze relative pronouns and can never think of which one is right.

i have this sentence
"ludi quos amo ludere."
I want it to mean "the games that I love to play."

Am i to use "quos" or "qui?" i was thinking "quos" because what i love to play is those games... haha
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Subject:Is there a way to say...
Time:11:50 am
Is there a way to say "Happy Birthday" in Latin? Today is my sister's birthday and she's a huge fan of any and all languages so I thought I'd wish her it in Latin (if there's a way).

Thank you.
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Subject:Need a breakdown of this.
Time:05:10 pm
I need a word-for-word breakdown of the following text, because every frakking online Latin dictionary starts having fits by the time I get to the 6th line:

Pater noster, qui es in caelis:
sanctificetur Nomen Tuum;
adveniat Regnum Tuum;
fiat voluntas Tua,
sicut in caelo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie;
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
Sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris;
et ne nos inducas in tentationem;
sed libera nos a Malo.

Yes, it is the Our Father prayer. I know the English translation. What I need is a word-for-word breakdown so I can make a new version of it. Also, a pronunciation guide would be nice too.

Also, my source for this does not give a Latin translation of this part of the prayer:

[For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours
now and for ever.]

EDIT: This one site I found gives "for-debtors our" as a translation of "debitoribus nostris." Looked on several sites for the base Latin word for a debitor, and found that it is "debitor." But I can't figure out how to make it plural. I want to change the line "Sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris" to the Latin for "And protect us from our debitors." So far, I have "quod servo nos a debitum nostris." I know "debitum" is wrong, but I don't know what the plural for "debitor" is.
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Subject:Virgil's Fly
Time:10:23 am
Happy All Saints everybody! Have you all heard of the funeral of Virgil's housefly? I only just now learned about it on the BBC radioshow "The Unbelievable Truth". This is what googling reveals (anecdotage.com), but they don't name sources:

Publius Vergilius Maro or Vergil, the Roman poet known for The Aeneid, one of the great epic poems in history, sponsored a lavish funeral for a fly, a common housefly he claimed was a favorite pet. The funeral ceremony was held in Vergil's splendid mansion on Esquiline Hill in Rome. An orchestra was on hand to soothe the paid mourners. Many celebrities attended, among them Vergil's patron, Maecenas, who gave a long and moving eulogy to the fly. To cap it off, Vergil himself wrote several poems for the occasion and read them. The fly was buried in a special mausoleum. The entire extravaganza cost Vergil 800,000 sesterces - about $100,000.

What motivated this funeral to a fly? Vergil may have known in advance that the government - the second triumvirate of Octavius, Lepidus and Mark Antony - planned to confiscate the property of the rich and parcel it out to war veterans. One exception was that no grounds containing burial plots were to be touched. When this law came to pass, Vergil sought exemption because there was a mausoleum on his land. Exemption was granted, and Vergil's housefly had saved his master's property.

The closest that comes to my mind is the epyllion "Culex" from the Appendix Vergiliana, where a gnat saves a shepherd from a snake.
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Subject:The New Logic Museum
Time:02:43 pm
After Geocities took everything down I reached into my wallet and got a proper domain name.  The new site is here.  For those who don't know, the Logic Museum is designed for those who want to read Latin texts in parallel with an English one. The Latin is in the first column (it is the most important!) the English is in the second.  It has many uses: first as a source of Latin (many medieval and mostly late 13C) texts, mostly on the subject of logic, theology and metaphysics. Second, to understand the terms the authors were actually using (as opposed to the various and often eccentric reditions in the English translations - try and find a consistent one for ratio e.g.).  Also as a way of searching for difficult to translate Latin phrases.  Pop the phrase in the Latin search here, choose which author or set of texts you want, and it may give you an answer.  The searcher may take a while to settle down until the Google bot crawls through all the new material.  Specific subject areas are listed here (includes English material from the nineteenth and early twentieth C).  Specific authors and corpora here

Most recent addition is Thomas Aquinas' commentary on the first book of Aristotle's Metaphysics (more to follow).  This is comprehensively linked to the Aristotle text (English only, for now) using Bekker numbers (the only version of Aristotle on the internet which gives you this, I believe).  Later I will replace this with the Latin translation from the Greek made by William of Moerbeke in the 1260s.  I have a bit about William here.

I hope this is useful to this community.  I owe the community a lot when I first began translating Latin five years ago. I have improved a bit since then and with a bit of luck my first translation (of an early work by Scotus) will be published next year! 
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Time:05:36 pm
Hello. I'm trying to come up with a clever-sounding Latin way of conveying the idea that anger can be a good thing. So far, I've come up with "Saevitas salvat" ("Rage saves/preserves"), and I don't know that that's particularly good. Any assistance would be very much appreciated.
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Subject:Tattoo Translation
Time:06:52 pm

I would like to get the following tattooed on me in Latin:

"They condemn what they do not understand."

I searched around on Google, and many sites translate it as "Damnant quod non intellegunt." Is that correct?

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Subject:Help translating a latin motto
Time:10:47 pm

My wife and I are founding a micronation. We have been trying to translate our intended motto into Latin and wondered if you fine folks could give us a hand.

Our motto, in English, is
[to] see the world in a deeper shade of green

...this being basically an intended equivalent of "to see the world through rose-colored glasses" but meaning "to live more fully" rather than "to have an irrationally positive attitude."

The Latin we've worked out, given my wife is an English major but neither of us have taken it since 9th grade (and I failed the class so massively it's... really just funny) is:

gerere mundum [ceu/tamquam] [atrius/magnius] colorem viridantis

Can anyone confirm whether any of this is correct or help us translate this phrase?

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Subject:Summer Latin Class at Unibo?
Time:12:22 pm
Hello! I'm a first-year Latin student and a first-time poster.

I stumbled across this program at the University of Bologna while looking for summer study options, but I can't seem to find any information about it offsite. So I was wondering if you guys had heard of it / knew if it was any good / etc. I'd be particularly interested to talk to someone who has taken one of those classes, if any of you fit that description.

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Subject:Translation help, please
Time:01:17 pm
Current Mood:hopefulhopeful
Hello there, all - I've always found Latin an interesting language but I've never yet had a chance to learn it. I don't speak it and can only fudge my way through maybe pronouncing it because of years of involvement with choral music. However, I do have a request if anyone would be gracious enough to help me...I'm writing a one shot fictional vignette set in the 17th century where a character is gifting something to another and I'd really, really like to add a Latin inscription to the object.

In searching around, I've discovered the following:

Plus aegri ex abitu viri quam ex adventu volupatis crepi. by the playwright Plautus from Amphitruo which was translated into English as "I felt more sorrow in his going than joy in his coming."

If possible, I'd like to do a similar sentiment but just tweak it a little into "I shall feel more sorrow in your going than what joy I felt all our time together."

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated :) Thanks in advance!

x-posted to little_details
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